This [long] post shares the second set of feedback from BBX members following my first email asking for feedback. I asked these two questions: Are you happy as a BBX member? Can you spend your credits effectively? The responses paint a very clear picture of serious problems for the failing exchange.
[ORIGINALLY POSTED in February 2017 at http://www.dennis.co.nz/2017/02/20-more-words-from-bbx-people/index.html]
BBX management have a crisis of their own making and are totally unprepared and unable to handle the consequences of what is happening at present.
When the banks move and pull the plug on BBX, the trading platform will go down. The authorities will step in and people will go to jail. It’s that simple and it’s that serious.
Let’s let the BBX people speak, again . . .
I would just like to say that I have a reasonable debt with the above and my concern is if they fold will they demand repayment in cash or trade $. If any one has light on this please let me know.
Your concern is valid. Please read your membership agreement that states to the best of my memory and non-legal expertise that should the Receiver see your debt in the trade system and choose to enforce the letter of the law then you will be required to repay any borrowing from the BBX system in cash, and I think from memory this is within 30 days. I would advise you to prepare for this eventuality. Trading back to zero is one way to do this. There are many members how would LOVE to get something tangible for their BBX credits. It is now a sellers market with my valuation of the BBX Trade dollar at 10c in the dollar or less. Make hay while the sun shines!
Sent from my iPad
It is a waste of money, I have had no sales so there for have no need to worry about using any credit. I have requested to cancel my membership and have been told that they are going to look into some compensation. Then I have heard nothing more. Meanwhile i continue to get into debt in trade dollars with fees every month and continue to pay the monthly cash fees.
You know what to do then eh?
Value for money spends are impossible to find. Very disappointed in the ability to gain any clients in the 3 years I have been in the BBX network. I owned a Tradebanc franchise and if no business was available for the member we would offer them their fees back.
Yes. I would say though that BBX doesn’t return fees and I’m not privy to any guarantee like that, thus I would defend BBX if they were accused of doing wrong by not returning fees. What I would not defend though is dishonesty and white-collar crimes which the members largely do not know about.
I found that the Adelaide office of BBX became very racist, where if you did not do as you were told there was no income transferred to you. This has led me to loose over $2000.00 of income over the past couple of years and has led me to close my account with them as it was causing my business o collapse, I have now closed it down.
You and your confidential personal and financial information is still within the bowels of the BBX monster.
Having been a member of BBX for many years in WA, it is the weaker organisation compared to Barrercard.
Yes substantially weaker! Their currencies are both on a par though with a lack of real backing and both highly devalued.
I assume you refer to their integrity, the hot air and comments from Cameron in Pattaya, i do not see as being significant. As Michael Tuomo died and he has sour grapes.
Please explain more. I am privy to information both about and from Cameron from around the globe. How many people have you spoken to and what quality of investigation have you conducted? Have you seen emails between Cameron and BBX that demonstrate utterly convincingly, at least to me that the story you have just taold me is not credible in the slightest? Yes MT died. Sour grapes? When? How? Sir, I don’t give too hoots about why somebody says something if they can back up what they say with evidence. As far as I recall, the whistleblower resigned, shared his actions and reasons for it with his ex-colleagues and I was the one who contacted him and did my investigation. Last time I looked it was me who asked questions; me who did an investigation; me who went out with it and me who is hammering the crooks, forcing them into a corner of their own making.
Oh sure I know that the crooks might want you to think this, but that’s all a logical fallacy to shoot the messenger. IRTA tried that on with me and look where it got them! Now if you think that I’m some ex-Franchisee in Thailand’s little slave or that I’ve been used badly – go for it, tell me when or how but as I see it, you are simply repeating an excuse that criminal management are using to cover for their very serious conduct by ripping their members off left right and centre.
Never forget this!
However i would suggest you trade down as i am, because BBX is easy to get and hard to spend.
And why is that? Please read my blog and The BBX Investigation in particular. The reason that you cannot spend is because somebody, somewhere has had their hand in the cookie-jar – and for a very long time? Who do you think that was?
Trust me . . . I know!
The organisation is and was always about the Tuomo family, sailing me and many others down the river over real estate deals.
Yes, you are dead right. Michael Touma knew and understood how to leverage the BBX exchange for personal gain. I cover this in more detail in an upcoming post. The bottom line, which we can agree on is that the principals of the BBX barter exchange have raped and pillaged the exchange for personal gain . . . the result is that the currency is virtually worthless and that some people will be going to jail. Who . . . well that depends on who will come clean first and plea-bargain with those who knock on their door in the middle of the night.
Employing weak staff, they have been useless in WA over the years, so trade out your $$$ and just get out is my advice.
Trading out simply transfers the results of your foolishness onto a bigger fool. While understandable, this raises an ethical question. In a dog-eat-dog world it is “More fool you! Buyer beware!” In an ethical world we should all pay for our mistakes and not load them onto others. Your call. I’d bail and take the hit, then I can sleep easy at night.
Dennis, i forgot to Add that in NZ Bartecard trade well and honerably. If you are going to be in $T do Bartercard only scrap all others ok.
No you are dreaming.
NZ Bartercard is owned by Australia and still trades with a highly debased currency, exactly the same as BBX. The Bartercard Trade Dollar is even more debased than BBX if you look at the bigger global picture. The difference is perception. BBX is not going down because one man pulled out in Thailand. It is not going down because they did things and debased the currency to thee point of gridlock. They are going down because of the relentless pressure of the truth, exposure and direct consequences of the people standing up in arms and asking questions. . . and then the authorities stepping in to mop up. There is a huge difference in size between the two B’s of Australian barter. MT punched above his weight but he was small by comparison.
In fact Michael Touma was effective in many of his deals BECAUSE he was small. The principals of Bartercard worked their shonkiness at a far higher concentration, and with much greater volume and therefore increased capacity to deceive. Remember that Paul Bolte who used to be boss of NZ and who is now doing Bartercard USA explained the art of leveraging a barter exchange when he says, ” . . . we are creative with debt”. This is the real strength of the Bartercard operations – strong capacity to deceive and huge capacity to conceal debt from decades of doing it.
Can you tell me how you got my email address and why you think it is ok to keep emailing your concerns?
From BBX’s database. I am concerned that all people and entities associated with BBX know of the results of my investigation. Your words “keep emailing” indicate a continuous activity. I have sent you one email with the option to remove yourself if you don’t want further information or updates. Please avail yourself of that service if you so wish.
Thank you for your email. This is an automated reply. The [redacted] has closed down permanently.
88,000 cardholders -1, -2, -3 . . .
Please do tell, what are your concerns?
I have managed to get some use from bbx it’s not always easy to get things done but I have has success and the area managers seem to be happy to help with most things.
But please tell me what your concerns are?
It’s all online on my website.
Life is exciting, it poses interesting and exacting challenges on a daily basis, so why waste your time and energy on an insignificant dysfunctional enterprise that purports to be a business.
Because this little “insignificant dysfunctional enterprise that purports to be a business” as you put it has stolen something on the far side of $200m worth of value from members just like you.
I’d also note very carefully that you appear to have a conflict of interest standing up for a criminal enterprise like this in public especially when you have not only $T7,256.78 you will be desperate to get value from but that with your $10,000.00 overdraft you have a huge sum of $17,256.78 available to you to spend. Indeed as you say, “Life is exciting, it poses interesting and exacting challenges on a daily basis” and TODAY for example, FOR YOU, because short of an apology and correction in very short order, I would consider a lawyer with a clear undisclosed conflict of interest standing up in public mocking a fearless investigative blogger who clearly has his facts all in order and attempting to protect a clearly and proven criminal organisation would indeed pose an interesting challenge.
I don’t know the Australian laws around aiding and abetting but I’d be across there in a shot if I wanted to take you on in court and the laws over there made aiding and abetting for personal gain by a lawyer an offence.
Sir, indeed “life is exciting”. I live on the edge. Sure, sometimes you fall off but people like us maximise every opportunuity. I have nothing to lose . . . you though, perhaps your legal career. May I respectfully suggest that you go back to my blog, “waste” a little bit of your valuable time and get clued up, then fix the problem you have just created for yourself?
Thank you for listening. I won’t take BBX for my advice . . . you can have that one on me. There are people all over the globe having a laugh at your gaff. That’s enough payment for me.
to be honest i dont fully understand it all.
but yes i have had trouble using my credits and find sometimes it difficult to follow.
Oh how refreshing! Someone who is honest and straight to the point. My dear, join the club! You are meant to find it difficult to follow. That’s what conmen and women want from you, blind trust and confusion . . . so they can get your goods, services and money!
I think you can understand that.
Yes difficult to trade BBX $. We have very few BBX services near us and although a lot of product sent in email. Nothing of interest. I think we have been in BBX for about 3 years and have made one only purchase of about $10K but no other trades since then. We are currently not selling anything on BBX until we can locate a regular spend down and are holding a small credit with them. We recently got caught with $25K+ Empire (E-banc) which we donated and closed that account so careful not to accumulate BBX. We are Platinum traders in Bartercard and have no problem spending Bartercard Trade $ in fact $18K in retaining walls at my house being erected as I type this.
Read your last email and a couple of your blog articles. Interesting.
You’ve learned your lesson with one exchange. You will see the second one dissolve before your very eyes and the third one will fold in due course as it locks up the exact same way as all the others . . . trust me! The principle behind con artists is deception. Big talk and tricks to keep trust high, all the while pilfering like there is no tomorrow. Rest assured however that when the truth comes out about the other B of the industry, their demise too will be inevitable. Every dog has its day.
BBX have cost me so much.
I can’t get my money out.
They charge me real money fees.
Will be looking at legal action soon, when I have the time.
Don’t bother. The barrel is empty.
I was about to thank you for contacting me, then I realized you must have the BBX Australasian data base and are notifying all members.
Almost . . global, not just AU, and yes I emailed everyone after posting the email online in advance.
As you can no doubt see, I’ve been a member for some time and currently have a substantial amount of trade dollars, nearly $90,000.
Sadly, you’ve lost it.
Am I happy, silly question, have I any feedback, after reading all of your posts, I guess there’s not a lot to say.
My experience with BBX is no different than most others, easy to sell through the system but hard to buy anything worthwhile or of any value.
This is called inflation. Technically it is through debasement of the currency. In practice it is from the exchange owners pilfering the value from the system – usually (as in BBX’s case) over a long period.
Have tried to buy property but have always found, after due diligence, that the properties are all over valued by as much as 30 %.
And this is where the real money is lost and made – lost by members, made by the elite who are in the know!
They say life is a journey, that’s true, I just wish the journey wasn’t so bumpy sometimes.
Spare a thought for others. For them is it a crash not a bump. You’re lucky that you’re still outside. Some will be “inside” very shortly, methinks.
Keep up the good work ( I think )
Good – keep thinking and get smarter. Hopefully I can help you do that!
I have no concerns with BBX at all.
I can spend my credit effectively and I am not forced into buying things I don’t require unlike an incident with bartercard, BBX is very proactive and benefits me and my business.
That’s great! May you long be happy sir, just spend down as quickly as you can so that you can get value from those credits that you currently have.
I am certain beyond any doubt that BBX is being well steered and I am so confident I would consider a BBX franchise myself if one was being offered.
Try Thailand. I hear it needs a leg-up. BBX UK had 61 Franchises available at the recent Franchise Show in the UK and is going great guns in their next target of 5,000
names in a database, I mean, members.
You sir, are totally deluded. Go to the Head Office today and ask Carolin how things are going. Ask a few simple little questions like, is my personal financial data safe and secure in this “well-steered” operation. Get specific because I can see you are a trusting man and ask her if the BBX system is PCI compliant. In case you have missed this in my blogging, as if this was possible, PCI means Payment Card Industry? And then ask your TCO how it is that I (and others around the world) can answer you questions about this sort of stuff, like . . . what’s unique about your card number . . . perhaps a couple of teens? or a ‘couple’ of duplicated digits in your PIN?
Sort yourself out sir and get your head out of the sand . . . for your own sake, please!
Look there is a flip side to everything . . . now you MIGHT have the opportunity to correct your misguided faith in crooks, and then advise your bank that there is a serious Data security Breach in your “well steered” BBX baby. Most rational people I know would listen to somebody like me who has done the work. Take it . . . it’s a gift . . . all free online.
Please, remove my name from your list of people to email.
Your emails are unsolicited and unwarranted and are damaging to yourself more than anything.
A saying comes to mind “ you don’t need a long neck to be a goose”.
Well you’ve stuck your neck out here haven’t you! I will be waiting for your apology and thanks that I never named you in public!
I think you are a waste of time and have nothing better to do. You are on a witch hunt and are damaging a business and its brand. I personally hope they take you and that Thai franchiser to the cleaners. I have no problems with BBX and never have had.
Though I would like to ask you a couple of questions.
What are your credentials ?
Who made you judge , jury and executioner?
And where can I contact you if you hurt my business through these claims so I may be able to serve you with a damages bill?
You have a great day.
I and I am sure most of BBX cannot wait until you find another victim to harass and leave BBX alone to continue on doing creditable business as usual.
I don’t suffer fools gladly. Even when BBX is closed down and the criminals are behind bars you will still be blaming me . . . you have an attitude even worse than mine . . . go away . . .
I have been a member for about two years now and have not been able to spend much of the barter dollars that I get at all. I am currently trying to source businesses that can provide services on full or part barter however with little to no luck. A large number have stopped dealing in BBX and the web site has multiple listings of the same business which makes it appear that there are more businesses than there are.
I am also looking into the businesses in NZ as I travel there and would like to spend BBX dollars however not much luck there either with businesses quoting not being able to spend their dollars.
If you would like to discuss in more detail please feel free to contact me.
You can contact me on my Tipline if you like. Sadly though, you have a repeating story!
Thank you for your email.
I’ve always been extremely happy with BBX service and local managers.
The only negative (which is an important one!) is the fact that a lot of businesses charge extra for using BBX which I find extremely frustrating. I feel that BBX could do more to control this.
That’s about it!
I think you have to understand WHY “a lot of businesses charge extra for using BBX”. This is because there is no value in the currency and the members know this. Trading is hard if not impossible, and after this last weekend it will grind to an immediate halt as the word gets out and confidence drops. Following a drop in trading, memberships will drop; staff will be laid off (if they haven’t fled the carnage) and then when the banks move it will be all over Rover. The truth I have shown will be proved as if anyone really needs more proof.
Digging deeper into why the currency has no value only leads to one location – the Toumas. They control the currency; they do the big deals; they have the wealth of the members and it is through their illegal conduct as managers of the currency that members have lost all.
BBX can do nothing to “control” members. If they don’t trust the currency then they won’t use it. Period. They can control perception if they come clean and work with integrity to fix the problems but when or where in the wide world did any crook get out of the mess they got themselves in to? They made their nest. In future posts I deal with how the BBX thing can be resurrected or saved. It’s not easy but it is simple.
I have had many problems and outright bullying by BBX CEO Carolin Macdonald in particular.
I have had my account frozen and money in trade dollars deducted for goods that were sold some six months earlier because the franchisee at the time according to BBX acted outside her authority.
I have lost about $30k in stock and recently spend all 58K BBX on pearls and Opals just to clear my account. I will never work with them again and it took me about 3 years to spend my BBX dollars and I lost $30k in the process. Very disappointed with the leadership of the BBX commander. The staff on the other hand are good and I feel are almost bullied at times to maintain BBX policies and procedures.
I commenced litigation at which point and only at that point did Carolin reinstate my account albeit minus $30k and my approach was to take the loss discontinue proceeding and get out.
I have no concerns for anonymity.
I’ve given you anonymity here simply because I am doing that for ALL responses and I’m not into inviting personal stuff. In regards to your comments about the ethics of Carolin MacDonald, the BBX CEO (and MT’s second daughter) she is an interesting and important subject, but it is not an easy one to address. If you don’ t mind I’d like to park this because at the moment she will be under HUGE stress and is clearly out of her depth. In a business sense she’s a “goner” but in a personal sense, I don’t believe in hitting someone when she is down. Her father taught her; she grew up in a family that deceived others for personal gain; she’s just come out of mourning and is no doubt trying desperately to save what she has.
At this stage I want to see all the BBX people come clean. Sure it’s 1;1,000,000 that she will but that’s still worth it for me, until she makes it clear that she wants to go down with the ship – her call. Anyone who turns Queen’s evidence, and they will all eventually, I want to give a chance to. I won’t hide anything in relation to The BBX Investigation unless there is VERY good reason to but it is the business and the currency that is what I’m after first and foremost.
Your other points regarding litigation and your trading history are noted, shared here and will be read by many, I am sure.
A bunch of liars and thieves
Deception for personal gain at others’ expense. Nah, your words are less ‘poofy’. Agreed
Whatever your issues with BBX has nothing to do with me. I am not sure where you received my email address and why you are spamming me? I am happy with BBX in Australia and if you have any issues with them and were a mature person you would deal with your problems privately and not act unprofessional and get other people involved that you don’t even know.
Please remove me from all your email correspondence immediately.
Please click UNSUBSCRIBE.
I am a VERY unhappy and dissatisfied ( I have attempted to resign three times and they refuse to acknowledge ) my request.
I have a large credit in the system which is impossible to spend anywhere
I am totally over continuing and ongoing fees after I have tried to exit.
I cannot get replies to communication.s
Umm I think that they are rather busy at the moment! Unfortunately my dear, you will very likely have lost your credit. There’s another few thousand people like you though, so you are not alone.
No Dennis you can not and its getting worse.People are selling their dollars for 10cents in the dollar at the moment.
Woah!! Lucky them . . . DON’T let that get out otherwise they’ll get inundated with offers – probably in the order of $7m if they wanted it.
All the decent property deals that come through are taken by management.
Yes, and to which the trade balances in debt are then ‘lost’ and cleared out resulting in more debasement and loss to the members . . . however did I know?
You have to go find your own deals and then put some bbx into it.All the trade exchanges keep at least one account off shore this is their debit credit account they are upside down i believe in the tens of millions how ever the ASIC has no jurisdiction off shore.
That’s right and there’s a lot more too. Fortunately ASIC is not necessary to bring the BBX principals to justice.
I tried to purchase the NZ franchise 15 years ago from the then owner now dead.It was in terrible shape.
Yes, still is. Dead, 499 historicals, names in a database with no trading and no one willing to trade.
Bartercard NZ is probably the best run trade exchange in the world.
Whatever you have been drinking, keep the recipe secret. You’ll get arrested for drug trafficking if you bring that across any borders.
Look, you can have good people in ANY country or organisation but if the organisation that you’re part of is crooked from the top, and if the currency that you’re presenting to the world is backed with BS, and if there is massive undisclosed debt and corrupt people at the top helping themselves hand over fist, then guess what . . . even if it is “well run” it’s a pig, perhaps with a little bit of lipstick maybe.
Says a lot for the industry eh?
Yes keep this to yourself these people can get very nasty terminate your acct then ask for the over draft owing in cash
Yup! Great cash conversion for them eh? I know all about it . . . remember that I’ve been in court three times with Bartercard. I’ve yet to lose. Another one or two coming up shortly probably. You know that game bop a ferret, or whack a mole? It’s just like Bartercard and me – they stick their head up and they get another whack. It’s almost like they go back underground hoping like h*ll that next time they stick their head up, I’ll miss them poking their tongue out at me.
Look when they close your account and try to steal your money, sue em . . . it’s a great cash conversion at their expense! I can’t wait to see them all in court one day – sadly I think the Aussies will get to them before me!
Thanks for touching base
I have nothing really to add to your research however we have found it hard to do anything useful with our BBX dollars
Join the club!
No, I am not happy with BBX.
As to spending my $T. That is something I asked at the beginning and still I have no answer.
I said that if I can’t spend $T then I was giving away my business for ’Sea Shells or Beans’.
I had just put it on the back burner hoping for inspiration. I will quit after reading your research.
Probably wise. Trade your overdraft out if you can, then when a receiver steps in you won’t have to pay your overdraft off in cash. You’ve only got a short time to do this by my estimation.
You are certainly on to something.
ROFL. Understatement of the year!
I am a BBX member and offered my services through BBX trade for my signage company.
I have recently ceased all ties and taking on work through BBX and their customers.
Purely because the points I earn through BBX trade serve as no use to me.
My business is currently thriving through my regular clients ( not through BBX) and I do not need the hassle of dealing with BBX
as it has no value to my business.
I am looking for a way out .
I currently have a large amount of BBX trade dollars and nothing appealing to spend my BBX dollar on.
Every service or company I do contact through BBX are no longer offering there service through BBX like me.
The bottom line is it just is not worthwhile and Obviously BBX just want to make money off annual fees etc.
They offer nothing.
I have also done signage work for BBX branding some of their stores and had a very hard time being paid.
In fact I still think balances are outstanding.
They are broke. You will have lost your trade credit and most likely any cash owing as well. Sorry.
May I ask how you got my email address?
Sure, off the BBX database.
We have always been able to spend our BBX dollars but we are no longer involved.
Thanks and good luck.
88,000 and another -1
Yes, my feedback is stop wasting my time and find something useful to do with your life.
Will do. Sorry for bothering you and also that you will have lost your $T32,648.73 investment into the BBX system. Find something of real value in life next time, eh?
That was until Bartercard Australia bought NZ out of course.Bartercard Australia are not much better than BBX in my opinion
Look to the people at the top, then observe trends, smell the roses. You’re onto it.
Good Morning Dennis,
Thank you for reaching out.
As you mentioned we agree with a declining culture in BBX. We joined almost 5 years ago now and were very excited at the prospect of working with other business owners with a common goal of using trade to free up our cashflow and support one another in business.
We have found a culture of people who treat other members like they are inconvenient to work with, who cut corners, take their time on jobs or put BBX jobs to the back of the queue or overcharge. Some, including us, are now charging part cash, part BBX. We have started doing this as we felt we were being taken advantage of by some customers and now unless we already have a good rapport with them we will charge cash for the part and bbx for the labour.
There are some members whom are fantastic and whom treat other members as they should like every other paying customer but the general feeling is that this is becoming less and less common.
We have also found bitterness and bitching from various members who are not happy with BBX which doesn’t make others feel very welcome. A pretty sad state of affairs by all accounts.
Please feel free to contact us if we can be of any further assistance.
A repeating theme. Some of this is as a direct result of the people involved. Michael did seem to have a way of attracting the less successful people around. Some of it though is the direct consequence of an exchange in demise. As goodwill dries up, trust evaporates and then the knives come out. You will see this within BBX now that the word is getting out. Staff infighting will become the norm. Where once it was hidden it will now come out into the light of day. Management will be in crisis mode, and quite frankly will not be able to cope. One bad decision is likely to follow another and then when the banks step in to remove their non-PCI compliant software that leaks like a sieve, it will be over. But a bit of ‘ugly’ has to come first. The peace will then descend – everyone will blame everyone else, and especially me, and then they will all go on their merry way licking their wounds or laughing, most all keen to get hooked into the next greatest big thing
I was a member for about 5 years. Below are some dot points:
Always had trouble using my points
If I brought anything on BBX, it was alway more expensive than I could get else where
At one stage, to buy an iphone on BBX it would cost over $10,000 BBX dollars at aution
Staff in Tasmania was always changing, so no-one never really understood my needs
Followup by BBX was virtually non-existant
Businesses refused to take BBX
Restaurants would only allocate 1 table per night to BBX
I lost $500+ when I closed my account as I was not able to use the BBX dollars
Sadly, a repeating story, especially from Tassie. You are lucky you only lost that much. Others will be losing a lot more.
We have been with BBX for around 11 years now and we have never had any problems with them as yet.
Great. Unfortunately I think things may be changing in this regard a little
Yes BBX is total rubbish and it has cost us lots of money over the years. I’ve never seen so many people come and go as brokers or franchisees as they call them with any other organisation before.
They’ve never done anything to help us trade out of the debt we’ve incurred and haven’t had any contact for quite sometime and clearly we need to trade out of it.
The trick is if we don’t keep paying monthly fees and we need to close the account we will have to pay the outstanding in cash which would be a big hit on our business considering how we acquired the debt to begin with and the value of the amount in real currency.
Prepare for it. You may have a little window of opportunity to trade back to zero. There are hundreds of members just itching to buy, right now. If you don’t the liquidator may require you, as you say, to cough up real money.
Attached is a statement for your eyes only, you can not publish the statement anywhere or use my name in any article as I don’t need to deal with any unnecessary rubbish at this stage. This is purely to assist you with your investigations.
We are [redacted] from [redacted].
We are absoutely angry and not happy as a BBX member! because we served every members that they came to get their amazing and expensive foods every time BUT we can not spend our credits effectively!
We asked for service from others that always we got are “asap” “will come next week” “I’m now busy” “have cost can’t deal with” etc.
You know we run the business we cant wait, its been too long for wait 5-6 months. Your Ads are fake, not working properly for us,
We request for refund $250 back from last week if not we will report and contact to head offfice again. And remove all our Advertising,we are not a member anymore.
Please do not waste the time again and again.
You will need to speak to BBX not me, sorry. Also ask them to take your financial details offline too while they are at it, and ask your Credit Card company to issue you with a new card. It’s compromised.
We are no longer members of bbx and have not been for a year or more.
Ah but hang on a minute, aren’t you one of the 88,000 cardholders. I’m sure of it!
I was a long term member of BBX since the days of Tradebart and left around six years ago.
I am now retired and living most of the year in [redacted] and BBX was expensive because I was unable to use my trade dollars effectively.
The Biggest problem that I found was being unable to spend my dollars on hard items.
Mostly services and restaurants are there.
I would spend on restaurants and ended up blowing my balance on high priced mediocre wine.
The big benefit for me was as a secondhand dealer. I would go to autions and buy commercial photocopiers for $5 and sell for $2500 trade and air conds for $25 and sell for $900.
A really good profit but then the money would sit for years because there was nothing solid to spend it on and too many people looking for items such as I would sell and willing to blow their dollars knowing they were paying too much compared to cash dollars.
BBX is good if you want to move old or slow moving stock for high prices and then are prepared to spend it on dining out etc or save big and convert it into real estate.
They need a better ratio of items for sale and services or else you will be paying fees on money banked and are unable to spend.
Long past any realistic chance ot that, but thanks heaps for sharing your story!
You need a whole day to hear my side of how much I disrepect for bbx… it’s caused me much more grief and stress than I ever imagined
I know the feeling. You’d need a whole day to read The BBX Investigation!
I AM NOT HAPPY AT ALL WITH BBX, I WAS LIED TO IN THE FIRST INSTANCE BEING TOLD I COULD CASH MY BBX DOLLARS IN FOR 25CENTS IN THE DOLLAR VERY UNTRUE
IT IS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO SPEND BBX DOLLARS ON ANYTHING OF VALUE I HAVE IN THE PAST BOUGHT SOME RINGS WHICH HAVE BEEN OK, BUT ON THE OTHERHAND HAVE BOUGHT JEWELLERY WATCHES ETC., THAT DONT WORK ND HAVE BEEN COPIES , NOT BEEN WHAT THEY WERE REPRESENTED AS .
Situation normal in BBX, sadly!
I’m not sure what is happening with BBX but I have established that Michael Touma passed away last year. I don’t know why we were not told. Seems a bit strange to keep it secret. Interestingly, the website still shows him as the MD!
Yes, I know. They did put [late] there after I blogged about it though so they obviously know this now. Look, seriously, I do not blame the Touma family for concealing his heart attack and actual state. I know that it upset some people who found out that they were deceived, but what would you do? You’ve got a company and a family that relied on Dad. He’s totally down but not out. It must have been a living hell, so I can understand it perfectly. Many would have got it out. The Toumas though knew what their man was up to and deception is normal – deceive.
As far as spending the T$ is concerned I can confirm that it can be difficult. This is typical of most trade exchanges as their service is usually only as good as the Trade Coordinator appointed to your account. I find that I can eventually spend the T$ but it takes some time and effort.
Understatement and even more so now.
Would you please advise the details of the “serious misrepresentation” you mention?
Virtually everything to do with BBX – membership numbers, trading, state of the currency, figures, and you name it – the lot! The real biggie though relates to property and how these shysters did and do it. More in future posts.
Can you clarify which you are and from where I don’t have any issue and the only issue is from time to time a disgruntled member dies something g like this to upset the system after couple months it rectified hops back on track
Yes, I can understand that. I am a private independent investigative blogger working from New Zealand. I work for noone and am self-funded 100%. If somebody wants some strategic advice I charge then $USD10.00 and they can have as much help as they want. I am not a member of BBX and haven;t been for years. I have a deep knowledge of the barter and alternative currency industry and have blogged well over a million words, a lot to do with barter and alternative currencies.
BBX has passed the point of no return. It has been off the tracks for years and all I am doing is pointing to that fact. Others will ensure that it is dead and I believe very shortly.
Are you happy as a BBX member? No, and haven’t been for a long time
Can you spend your credits effectively? No, and anything you can is overpriced and marked up. At the Auctions, Items worth $100 AUD go for T$3-5,000 just so people can offload their BBX.
Situation normal. Thanks for the response
Wake up to all…….
BBx is dead !
Ileft 24 months ago,,,too many Cowboys in the System ,,
At least you’re awake!
I think we are the only [redacted] members of BBX and I’ve never done anything with their business/services. I think we have an ad up somewhere on their site, but have not had anybody stay with us using BBX points as of yet. We will see what happens…
Yes, in the meantime I will keep blogging . . much more to come!
We have over 10k on BBX it has been a total disaster I cannot buy bugger all and have pretty much written this off. We were buying some small items from a BBX person who used to stay here but since I told him we are not accepting any more bbx bookings even he refuses to sell us anything.
My wife and I can’t comment on “the health of the BBX currency/exchange” or “ethics and conduct of BBX International management” because we ventured offshore with it. However, we can say a LOT about our experiences with BBX in Australia and in specific, Adelaide. Here are some of our experiences:
We have had SIX different ‘Account Managers’ assigned to our business since we started out with BBX during July 2015. We ‘fired’ two of them because their support was poor; we are about to ‘fire’ another. We currently have over 30,000 BBX$ in our account, so when they ask if they do something for us we are obviously interested. However, when we request that they get a vendor to do XYZ for us, they send me an email with data from their directory; a waste of valuable time because we can do that ourselves.
At expo’s we have been told that ALL transactions on BBX under $10,000 must be on FULL trade. The vast majority of vendors are simply not willing to do this and/or inflate their prices to ridiculous amounts. For instance, when we recently had repairs done to a vehicle by a vendor, they were only willing to accept BBX $ 500 for the labour. We were stuck with the rest of the bill (over AU$ 3,000), which we had to pay cash. We could have randomly selected any reputable vendor (not on BBX) and had the same work done for less.
While we have found a SMALL number of vendors who are willing to do things on full trade, they are the exception. We have also asked account managers (on various occasions) to let us know exactly what any given vendor is/is not willing to do on BBX, because nobody wants surprises or to be embarrassed. We are still waiting for a response…
Towards the end of last year, we requested the assistance of our account manager in sourcing vendors for catering/refreshments for my wife’s Tafe graduation event. We were more than willing to pay the BBX for this, but simply did not have the time to call around to find out who would/could do what. The account manager subsequently left BBX – we only found out when we called them and there was no handover of our request. So, in short, we were placed in an embarrassing position because we had to withdraw our sponsorship offer.
BBX are extremely lethargic in responding to email communication or getting back to you when you ask for data, but are VERY prompt when it comes to sending out monthly invoices or reminding that cash fees are outstanding. Vendors who we have built a relationship with have similar complaints.
So, in short (no pun intended), we are NOT happy BBX members and have difficulty spending our credits effectively. If this is symptomatic of how BBX conduct their business elsewhere, then it’s a can of worms. We are soooo over the time wasted to try and build an amicable good relationship (with little in return) that we are considering walking away. But how does one walk away from over BBX$ 30,000 that you have toiled hard for? We previously raised this with the State Manager and did not get a satisfactory resolution. I have attached a document that we received from BBX. You will see the notes that we added Indicate that their own rules are not worth the paper that they are written on. Does this represent poor ethics? We know that what we see in Adelaide, reflects poor leadership and a lack of accountability. Rant over.
Good luck with your investigation. We are also looking for answers and would be interested to see what you uncover.
It’s all online – over 30,000 words of it. You ‘rant’ represents reality for many, sadly. You have lost your $30k. I strongly suggest that you ask BBX to not only cancel your accoutn but to remove your details from their server (as it is still online and insecure) and for you to cancel your Credit Card, get a new one and never let people who knowingly run dodgy financial systems like this near your personal details again.
We would appreciate it if you do not publicise our names or company data, as it might damage our standing with [redacted] who appears to have a good working relationship with BBX.
That’s very likely to be fast changing right now, as we speak!
Sorry Dennis, we are no longer in business with BBX, however, we found then to be very helpful with the spending side, as good as Bartercard that we were also members of.
Great. You were lucky. Thanks for responding here.
No a lot of people aren’t happy and there’s a lot of fraud happening. I used to work for them and now I have to pay them to spend my wages.
Yes, I know too! Huge fraud – all at the members’ expense eh? You’ve lost your wages if you took funny money for them instead. Sickening I know but that’s what crooks are like across the globe – trash the ones that help them.
Thanks for the email.
I saw the original email, and I read all your blogs on the issue. (Would be great if you have any more info to come to let me know so I can continue following.)
Not sure what to make of it all really – I guess no smoke without fire?
What’s the problem? 30,000+ words makes it pretty clear doesn’t it?
From our perspective, we don’t seem to have any problems – we are in credit by $10,000 maybe we should be spending it up in case they go bust?
Ummm Might be a bit late for that now methinks!
Don’t really hear from them these days. Previously they were proactive and would call regularly to see if we needed anything. In the past year they don’t seem to be proactive in selling anything.
Never seems to be much we want on BBX anyway
Keep me posted!
It’s all online here.
I’m unsure how you got my email in relation to BBX
Because you are a BBX member. Didn’t you know that or are you trying to hide your relationship with them? Oops!
I didn’t give it to you or approve anyone else to do so.
So go back to BBX and speak to them. Half the world has all their data now. Oops!
I note that you have been highly defamatory to both BBX and Bartercard.
Sue me then.
Your actions will cause damage to not only those companies , but also to their member’s and account (balance) holders.
Well duh! You are billed as one of the smartest people in the industry and yet you come out with this drivel?! Cummon mate [spoken with a real Aussie drawl to make you feel at home up there]. Wake up and smell the roses!
From what I can understand you know this to be the case, given you stated that “confidence and trust” are fundamental to a Barter /Trade eXchange and you are intentionally trying to undermine exactly that.
When you and your cronies in crime lie, steal and deceive others for personal gain who is it who commits the greater wrong – the guy that pops the bubble or the guy that blows it up. I take full responsibility popping the bubble. You and yours can take the responsibility for blowing it all in the first place. Do it straight. Do it right and I’ll be the first to support you in any way I can. Lie, con steal and deceive the little people and I’m coming after you. Your little baby is next BTW. The ‘Smiles in Suits’ all know it too and are changing their nappies as they watch BBX come acrashing down right in their backyard.
These acts of aggressive defamation are outside the law,
Sue me. Trevor Dietz told the world that action had commenced in multiple jurisdictions around the world but is there a problem with that now? Do you want to do it before or after the book Bartercard Exposed comes out?
and appear to be driven by a desire to be paid for some supposed( and undisclosed ) wrong to you – in other words blackmail.
You deign to tell me why I do something? Sir you would never understand a straight-shooting blogger like me in a thousand years. I had opportunity aplenty to fight Bartercard in the last decade. Did I? Nah! Simply not interested. When the time comes though it will all come out. Am I after your scalp? Nah, to date, simply not interested. Keep wasting my time with this drivel though and I might change my mind. The way I look at it you did your stuff and got out – good on ya! The happiest day of your life . . . says it all! You’ve got your payday. Keep it. You want the money . . . I don’t and that’s the reason that you simply don’t understand people like me who live on principle, not greed. For the record, the reason I do what I do is because of the little people, that suffer because of people like you, who trample on them and profit from them, and because it’s the right thing to do.
I’ve got nothing to lose. You do. I want nor need nothing from you, so bring it on sir!
I’m aware that more than one former employee of Barter companies resides (or is it in hiding? I can never be sure) in Samoa. It’s unclear if this is a collaboration (conspiracy) , and I have passed this information of your actions to a high level associate of mine , who is a close friend of the President.
Oh really, really oh really. First I don’t reside in Samoa. Secondly I don’t know who you are talking about. Thirdly Samoa doesn’t have a president. If you are talking about the Head of State then he wouldn’t even bother to see you let alone talk to you. Do you know and realise that he and I were the only two people in Samoa with a limousine? Yeah – his was black and mine was white. Call him by all means and see where that takes you. Oh I’m sorry sir, you mean the Prime Minister of Samoa? Tuila’epa? Oh him . . . really sir, you have no idea of what you are getting into here . . . please let me explain:
Tuilla’epa is a politician. Politicians play politics. Your friend will no doubt go to him and he will say, “Really? That’s very interesting . . . tell me all about it!” Then after listening enough to get the gossip he will say, “Leave it with me!” which is code word for, “Bugger off!”
Sir, Tuila’epa was a personal friend of mine for some two years, as close to a friend as any politician could be. He was the patron of the SWAP Foundation a charitable trust that my wife at the time and I established up there. Two years into his patronage he took up my suggestion to stand down so that we could de-politicise our operations. I am the only person I know who effectively fired the PM in Samoa (and lived to tell the tale). I left Samoa sir, you know why? Because I was booted out. I lost everything I had including new wife, three children and everything I owned, apart from my notebook computer and a small bag of clothes. You wanna know why I got booted out? Because I wrote a book called Corruption in Samoa; then I gave one copy to the PM to read and promised him that I will be publishing it. You know what sir, again? He wasn’t worried in the slightest about any chapter in the book except the one that talked about him and an inappropriate relationship he has with one of his CEOs. Do a DNS lookup on www.tuilaepa.com and pause and think. You think I’m worried about a politician who mucks around with one of his team? Nah . . . when your “high-level” contact speaks to him, how about you get him to drop the old man a quick little message if you don’t mind . . . tell him that Dennis always keeps his word, and that he’s publishing. I don’t want anything from him, but the truth will out. Then get your man out of Samoa on the next flight, or he’ll never be leaving.
I am aware that the authorities there take a very DIM view of actions based in Samoa that could or do damage Australian, New Zealand and South Pacific businesses.
Your actio0ns are doing exactly that .
Oh you are so up yourself – totally deluded. I am based in New Zealand. I am cleaning up the riff-raff of the industry and am doing very serious damage to frauds, cons and Ponzi schemes like Bartercard and now today, BBX.
Sir, can I ask a couple of little questions before close this dialogue? Thank you . . .
1. Why does this matter to you? I thought you were out? How come you have an account in BBXUK with a massive credit of £73,908.00? Better do a deal methinks to get it out, fast. 2. I have people all over the world who are asking me where you are and what you are doing now. Wassup?
Delete me from your database (of unknown origin) and do not contact me again – EVER
Touchy touchy! It came from BBX themselves you know via the Tipline to me. Good systems eh? Why not just click unsubscribe, like any intelligent person would have done, then calm down. Go and have a beer with John and Co and relaunch. Do it properly this time or I’ll have another scalp in a few years to add to my list of fools like you who lie and cheat others then come crashing down in a heap. And hope like h*ll that some of your mates don’t rat on you the same way that the others have. Too late . . . Oops!
We will be in contact again many times sir in the future, of that I can assure you! Never underestimate a man on a mission sir, who has nothing to lose.
Your old baby is next. Stand aside or get out of the swimming pool because I just pulled the plug and sharks really don’t like that kinda situation.
Good on ya for at least showing your head though. The bruises will heal.
[/Aussie drawl over]
I have a credit at BBX and finding nothing to spend on equivalent to the quality to what I sold.
You will have lost it, sorry.
I would like more information – who are you and why are you sending such emails to me?
I am an investigative blogger located in New Zealand. It’s on my website.
How did you obtain my contact details?
The BBX database . . . they shared it with the world, free!
As a blogger you say you have concerns and misrepresentations
But you do not supply any specifics and you ask for customer feed back
Are you scare mongering or do you have facts
Yes and yes. Yes I am scaremongering and I have facts . . . I’m scaring you into the knowledge that the company is going down; that you have a BBX account of NZD $T7,173.52 and no way to spend it. Is that enough fact, along with the 30,000+ words of blogging with evidence . . . or would you like me to tell you your PIN number or card numbers. Contact your Credit Card company immediately and tell them that you have good reason to believe that your financial details have been compromised and that you are very concerned and and and . . . and read up. Oh and just in case you doubt me, your PIN can be calculated by establishing the square root of a big number with 4 having double double significance. Savvy?
Good afternoon Dennis
Hope you had a wonderful weekend.
Thank you for the below email.
I came on board with BBX approx [redacted] ago have not made one sale or had any traction what so ever, did try to cancel my membership and they convinced into another free 3 months 🙁 too be a honest a very bad experience so far but I must admit I am not a very big fan of trading point enterprises ie bartercard.
Sorry I cannot provide any further information.
Have a good day and please keep my feedback confidential.
Well your identity yes but not your feedback. Thank you. I redacted information that can be traced back to you. Don’t worry, they won’t have any energy or interest in going after you – survival is the name of their game at the moment.
We are not members any more, but thank you for sending us your investigations.
When we were in BBX we were able to spend our credits eventually.
We are now also with Bartercard and find them very useful.
We left BBX because we had some trouble with BBX retailers.
Staff would say they are in BBX when they were not with them anymore.
We know that some of them would give you a price on BBX and a lower price for Cash.
That’s right but the two B’s of Australian barter are peas in a pod. My book Bartercard SECRETS reveals this. You have been warned.
We are in the process of disengaging from BBX.
Personally we do not find the products and services on offer attractive nor the cash to digital currency ratio offering any value.
Unfortunately our $250 yearly membership was auto withdrawn before we could cancel our membership which we are about to do.
I am interested to read what you have uncovered.
There’s more to come, a lot more.
No not happy with BBX. We have found there isn’t much to spend our just under $10k on. Not sure what we will do yet.
You will lose your credits, sorry about that
We were under the impression everything was bbx dollars and that’s what we were charging but when we went to spend we had to use both dollars and bbx dollars.
[redacted] has had a go at them, but once we have spent the dollars (somehow) we will be getting out.
Too late methinks
Bbx is falling apart.
Yes, but it is past tense
The currency is totally without value, and cannot be spent effectively anywhere.
No need now.
Hi Dennis, A bit of feedback for you. I asked BBX about your blog. BBX management in South Australia are saying you are about to be arrested and to ignore your emails and block them as spam.
You got ONE email from me right?
They say you have been employed by the Malaysian guy,
Yeah right . . . like I am employable? He was shit scared that if he spoke to me that I’d turn on him. It took me ages before he helped me with a few critical facts . . .
who was sacked by BBX after defrauding BBX,
Like the fact that this is provable falsehood! He resigned and then they panicked and came up with this nonsense. You know how I know? I asked him and then when I asked for evidence to prove his story he came up with it.
to badmouth BBX.
Must be running scared eh? Worrying about who said what and why.
I also wrote to BBX saying “who to believe ?”. I guess your prediction will be proven or disproven in time.
Of course, except the facts are out there. I’ve done the research. Do the same as me. Ask the questions and then work it all out. It’s all in my blog!
I speak the truth and don’t give a rat’s behind what fools and liars say . . . what else do you think they would say? You won’t be waiting long . . . they will be in total disarray so watch the knives come out now!
To answer your question, there are always issues in trying to spend trade dollars, and a lot of traders are offering 50% trade and 50 % cash . Although BBX management used to contact traders doing this a few years ago and throw the book at them, BBX management now tends to accept this practice as normal ( even though BBX only gets its sale percentage for 50% of the transaction, which is not good business for them).
That’s right, because the currency has been debased – simple!
I am an Accountant/Economist by qualification and I would be interested whether you have any hard empirical data to back up your dire prediction about BBX.
You want proof of a prediction but I cannot do this. can you prove that tomorrow will come? I can give you proof of the debts; of the huge trade imbalance and other such things. My advice is to trust me. Work it out from my blogs – $37m members in Credit, $7m members in Debit and probably they are mostly all bad . . . nobody can spend . . . common mate, you should be able to work that all out – the cookie-jar is rather empty now. Who stole the cookies from the cookie jar?
I have read all of your blogs out of interest but couldn’t find any actual hard financial proof for your prediction in your blogs ( although I am conscious of the saying that where there is smoke, there’s fire).
Sorry I cannot give you the database off BBX International because it was given to me via the Tipline and you are not protected by Shield Laws as a professional journalist and I am. I have a professional responsibility and I respect that. You will note that I am using it judiciously to valid my blogging but simply giving you the raw personal and financial data of a gazillion [claimed] members is a no-no.
There are other ways to get this though, simply go into their management system and just view it all – that’s the easiest way. You gotta know how to do it but half the world knows how to so just ask around. It’s basically an open system, and I think still connected!
The other way is to get either IRTA or BBX to make a public statement that I am not credible, then I will publish the entire global database including all the financials, PIN numbers, card numbers the lot online. I’ve warned them. Just bait them to do it in public and you can have it inside ten minutes, along with the rest of the world. They won’t be popular with the banks if it comes to that but if they read this blog they will know my promise to protect my reputation publicly so try it. They may bite.
If you give me a good reason – like a demand from your lawyer or judge or something where you provide me with forensic accounting or auditing services then I’ll consider that too but the source will never be known because that’s my professional commitment.
The other way is to talk around the BBX people. Others have it, there are some very worried and upset people in there at the moment . . . you might strike it lucky . . . who knows?
Perhaps as an accountant you can ask BBX for it? After all they have made it visible to others . . . why not you? Surely they would want you to know the truth, after all if you found out the truth then they would want you to confirm or deny my figures, yes?
Thank you for your email.
I have never been a member of the BBX community. I met them at an expo and subsequently had a tele con but then told them that I had no interest in joining and that it presented no direct benefit to our business. However, I have ben included on their mailing list ever since and it has been two years and I receive statements from them despite never having joined.
So you are from BBX UK then? How ever did I guess? Your financial details are available and visible to the world. Your identity is being used by people who are using your membership and “cardholder” status to con people into buying their franchises, currently throughout the UK. Nice people eh?
I suggest that you cancel your credit cards, tell your bank where the data security breach came from and ensure that BBX removes ALL your data off their insecure systems. You have one Bronze BBX Card Number 6220-4311-0000-3*** and you signed up on Monday, Mar 30, 2015. Off you go now, work that all out – you’re the lawyer! Research PCI compliance and the EU regulations for the storage of financial data off-shore and then advise your credit card company of what you find and what you think may have happened. Read my blog, all 30,000+ words of it and take it from me, you are being used. You will know what to do, I am sure, but give me a tinkle if you need any help.
88,000 -1 again!
I never signed up with these people as far as I am aware but I did have a very quick chat before they gave me emailed statements. When the statements come through to me I don’t even bother to open them.
You are from the UK? But of course!
Regarding your request for feedback.
Your comments are surprising as I have not been able to identify any misrepresentations over the 5 years we have been involved with BBX.
Here at [redacted] in West Perth we have always received the highest standard of service.
Some very reciprocal and beneficial transactions with BBX have taken place here.
Not for more than two years, actually since Wed, Feb 11, 2015 when you last traded methinks. A lot has changed in the last two years sir, and not for the better, I’m afraid.
Sure people come and go because it would be very challenging for some people to grasp the concept of barter.
And others misrepresent reality!
I would be very interested to learn for what reason you are wanting to damage BBX with the comments you have made?
Yes, and which one of the comments in the 30,000+ words with evidence are you referring to?
Oh, sir, I don’t think you understand at all. I have no interest in wanting to damage BBX. I am revealing the truth in realtime so that the banks will close then down forthwith. It’s happening as we speak and that reminds me, have you cancelled your credit card and informed them that your private financial information is compromised? Trust me – I think you should.
Before I go deeply into a reply I would like to know how you “found” me.
I have not been a member of BBX for about two years now, for reasons of which you seem to be aware .
More later perhaps.
You are a member of BBX according to their system. May I respectfully suggest that you ask BBX to “unfind” you?
My tipline is always open
Is your mum and dad , brother and sister. Because interbreeding produces defects in a person character and you appears to be covered in some huge defects.
Get a life you grub.
If you did not understand what I said above, let me make it clear.
You are a prime example of why a brother and sister should not have sex with each other.
Have a good day.
You have a dirty mind and a foul mouth. To people like you I’m a c**t because I can give as good as I get. I might get up your nose because what I say and perhaps how I say it but I’m smart and level-headed and you are an angry fool.
First, you shoot the messenger, then you dance all around the place like you’re smart. You know my credit card details do you? No? Well I know a lot about your financial privates. That’s make me smarter than you and you look like a fool. You don’t believe me, Mr Angry? So then take your PIN number and multiply it by 92. You get a number ending with a double and then one digit less. Right? Just be bl**dy lucky that it sits in the safety of a professional and not sold off to Russion hackers, then you’d be really wetting your pants.
You are an utter fool. Your critical financial details are all over the world, I try and help you and warn you and you dump on me? You’re da grub mate!
You know what a fool also does, sir? They invest goods and services into a trade exchange that has been debased by the owners for decades which is very likely why you are so angry that you stand to lose $T18,387.71 very soon, and you know it!
I reckon that you made a huge mistake getting into BBX and both you and your sister know it. They got a whole bunch of fences off ya and you got conned with a truckload of worthless BBX credits. Who’s the worse fool then – the con artists or the sucker?
Take your anger out on the people that really hurt you – not me – you idiot. Just in case you didn’t understand what I said above, you are a fool, you will lose your $18,387.71, yes every last 71 cents of it and I think that you should apologise to me and thank me for saving you from getting whacked with even greater losses.
Never used or registered and don’t plan to. Spammed by their mailing list though!
How did you get my email address, particularly in relation to them, considering all they do is spam me! Guess BBX just tried to work out my details by scraping LinkedIn.
You are on the BBX database. They shared it with the world. You have a brone account and your account number with them is 6220-4311-0000-19** and you joined on Friday, Feb 13, 2015. Surely you would remember getting the card in the post and signing up? I mean I can see ALL your details here . . .surely you wouldn’t be yet another UK member just loaded into the database would you?
Thank you for your update on this – I’m not sure of my connection to BBX or how we are connected.
Please would you enlighten me? I want to ensure I’m not ignoring passing your warnings on if they are relevant to me or my network.
Maybe you should contact BBX UK and ask them this? After all they were the ones who issued you with a Bronze BBX card (number 6220-4311-0000-4***). Your Salesperson was JOHN ATTRIDGE and your Trade Coordinator is LINDA ATTRIDGE. You have a Credit Line of £200.00 which has yet to be accessed. This all makes perfect sense to me! I’m sure that they will be able to explain it all for you.
I am not a BBX member so have no idea what you are talking about!
But good luck with your investigation anyway.
Sorry but oh yes you are! According to BBX you are anyway!
I have no dealings with them but have always doubted their model.
It is not clearly explainable and hence I have always ignored it!
Probably pretty wise, except that they have you on their system as a member. Funny that eh? The system is pretty simple really. You join BBX and pay them money. Next question?
It’s a terrible platform that we don’t use.
It was miss sold to us and they wouldn’t refund us, 7 days after taking our money
You didn’t really think that money would exchange both ways did you? Surely not!
88,000 -1 again.
I never signed up with these people as far as I am aware but I did have a very quick chat before they gave me emailed statements. When the statements come through to me I don’t even bother to open them.
Ah but you ARE a BBX member sir, one of 88,000, -1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1 . . . sorry to say!
I now conclude this post of feedback from BBX Members with a biggie. That some businesswoman on the other side of the ditch would respond in so much detail is an honour, so I will respond likewise. It involves someone in a close working relationship with the principals of BBX; she details all her various entities with links to their website; finishes with a public declaration of her support for the CEO Carolin MacDonald which all indicates that she is happy to put her name out there publicly. I redact the same as all feedback because I consider this prudent in the circumstances – first I believe that she is in for a rude shock when the facts come out (I want to prevent embarrassment), and secondly I don’t want to set a precedent that may cause others to think I will expose their details, thus it’s easier for me to redact everything from everybody.
I have a Superannuation Fund which had about $690K in it previously, and now has about $230,514 – having been able to trade and invest in two leading innovative technology companies at a $T1.00 ([redacted]) and $T0.20 ([redacted]) when they were offering shares in the cash market for $1.00 and $0.20. Early stage technology companies are always hard pressed for cash and would NOT contemplate taking BBX Trade Dollars at the same Cash Value as their AUDcash investors, if they weren’t able to spend it equally as well.
I am also a Director of several companies that are using BBX very effectively, including:-
1. [redacted] (see www.[redacted].com.au) builds houses using BSMART Australia, who is happy to take up to 20% of his build price on BBX. We are very happy with their quality
2. I was the CEO of [redacted] Limited, an ASX listed company that took $T2M investment with BBX, at the same time as we were raising $2M in the cash economy. [redacted] Limited subsequently reverted to private equity (2012), when corporate raiders were trying to gain access to our Intellectual Property – we then sold the ASX shell, and traded as [redacted] Pty Ltd (private company). several employees and several of our consultants took partial payment in BBX, including:-
a. CEO – took 25% in trade; similar portion in equity and remainder in cash
b. CMO – took 50% in trade as he was doing house renovations and found it just as easy to deal with as the cash economy, but could access proven tradesmen
c. R&D Manager – took approx 15% in trade, as he was able to invest in a house build by BSMART Australia
d. International Business Manager – took a % in trade (I can’t recall now)
e. Precision Optics Manager – took initial job in 100% trade, then went into Continuous Supply Agreement
f. Beneficial Plastics – plastic injection manufacturer took some jobs in BBX (can’t recall the amount) – I know he paid over $60,000 to BSMART Australia towards a house build
3. If we had had any difficulty with the use of BBX [redacted] (see www.[redacted].com.au and www.[redacted].com) have sold about $60K worth of product through BBX in the last 12 months or so, and have had no difficulty trading back with other suppliers
4. [redacted] (see www.[redacted].com.au) has worked with BBX for about 15 years – and when they hit a hard time, BBX was very gracious and continued to allow them to trade, while owing fees – that doesn’t happy if the trading entity is insolvent!!!
5. [redacted] has traded without difficulty with BBX, it has traded with regards the provision of engineering services.
6. [redacted] (www.[redacted].com) is a nationally registered training organisation, delivering qualifications up to Graduate Certificate level – and they trade with BBX, without any difficulty.
Where you have a Continual Supply Agreement you are able to negotiate part cash and part trade – this is standard – and for the “self appointed investigative blogger” to suggest that part cash/part trade is indicative of anything other than sensible operations amongst members, is absurd.
I think you will find that you get similar results from whoever you ask.
I dealt with Michael Touma initially, and more recently with Carolin – I have found they delivered on what they promised
a) To get $2M in investment into [redacted] Limited
b) To introduce specialist suppliers who could deliver what we wanted
c) To hold BBX funds in trust during the Administration period (because the BBX Agreement indicated that in the event of non payment of fees, the Trade dollars revert to BBX) – to have an agreement that when the private entity covered off on the fees outstanding at the time of the Administration, the trade credits would be transferred to the private company which was made up of the same major investors as the ASX listed company (ie the inventors, major shareholders and underwriters)
d) To exercise patience during difficult commercial times – because they had had a rough ride with BBX Property during the GFC (and let’s face it that was big enough to kill Lehman Brothers, and to swamp Merrill Lynch, AIG, the Royal Bank of Scotland, Bradford & Bingley, and others!!! So I don’t think you could lay too much at the feet of Michael Touma and/or BBX
My confidence is with BBX – and as they were prepared to ride through the rough times with us, as people tried to destroy us out of their own malice and for their own personal gains, so I will stand with Carolin and BBX
The first thing, Ma’am, is that I appreciate the incredibly detailed response you have given here; then also the fact that you have gone on the record is also admirable IMHO.
If I take a whack at your feedback and downsize into bullet-points I think it would be:
- You are a high volume trader;
- You have and have had multiple entities operating within the system;
- BBX management have assisted you over the years and you appreciate this;
- You have used part-trade; part-cash successfully and consider it normal and healthy;
- You assess my motives as ulterior from malice or for personal gain (or whatever);
- You have a high degree of personalisation, as you say, “Stand[ing] with Carolin . . .”
There could be minor points but these are the primary ones as I read them. My response, again appreciating your lengthy and may I say it professional response:
- As a high-volume trader, you miss the dynamics of a trade exchange at the lower levels. Just like a ‘silver-spooner’ cannot understand the life of the outcast, a lot of the words that you have used here, and the concepts that you bring to this feedback is simply not where the bulk of the exchange sits. The profit sits in the circles that you mix. The opportunities are there but this is NOT the life of 99% of the BBX members. This is not a criticism as such, simply an observation. What I would encourage you to do is assess things from the other side . . . if you were in MT’s or Carolin’s position what would you do – openly screw you over? Not on your Nellie! Understand this then please – your case is different to the vast bulk of the rest because you have something that the ringleaders want and they will do everything to give you what you want because it is in their best interests. This should then be no surprise that you have had different experiences – to the discerning it is obvious. Maybe not yet to you, but this should be a warning sign at the very least.
- Again, you have been successful in using the BBX brand, system and currency over the years in many ways. All credit to you (and the BBX team) let’s not take anything away from that success. But past success does not necessarily equate to current performance as we will see shortly.
- One thing that you need to understand, and it will be very hard for you to believe this in your current position is that I do not begrudge anyone what is theirs. If they worked for it and got it by legitimate means, then this is great – they deserve the kudos for it in my book. But I’m not into ego stuff with BBX. I have investigated them, found things that you clearly do not know about and it stinks to high heaven. I fully accept that this is around your personal happy experiences, thus far.
- Your comments and shock about part-trade and part-cash are perfectly valid to a point and appreciated. Let’s go into this in a little more detail so that we can bring clarity. The concept of BBX (and other traditional barter exchanges) is that they have a membership system, a trading platform and a currency. The health of a currency is the key component. You can have people desperate to get trade dollars and will pay more in cash to get them (when there is huge value in an exchange’s currency) or you can find (as with BBX) that the trade dollars are worth less than the cash dollar. A lot comes into this – marketing, perceptions, historical events, trade deficits, and circumstances, but the key is perceived value. Now in most exchanges the owners want to present their currency on par with the local currency – that is why Bartercard have their, “Full Trade or No Trade” policy. Except for your situation where you are dealing with larger unique transactions, the first sign of a weakening [debased] currency is that people will resist accepting it – you can see dozens of the responses above are along these lines. When a currency is debased badly (as in the case of BBX) part trade is a perfect indicator of problems. A currency is a currency, period. It matters not to the traders whether they use BBX, Bartercard, USD, gold or cash or in what proportion – they will work out what they want to use. In a young healthy vibrant honest well-run barter exchange you can often get people paying more in cash than the Trade Dollar equivalent. People wanting to do a large deal perhaps might want a top-up of Trade and pay good cash money in order to crunch a deal. The fact that you do part-trade and part-cash with larger transaction values is simply not a problem to me. Even BBX themselves acknowledge the reality that doing full trade all the time on big deals is unrealistic. We all know that BUT and this is the kicker when the bulk of the members start asking for the GST component in cash, then 20% then 33$ then 50% in cash you can see what is happening – currency debasement for sure!
- We now get into a touchy subject and the first thing I will call you to account over. I have blogged extensively about BBX and have made it perfectly clear the reasons why I do what I do and malice or personal gain have nothing to do with it. Join me on Skype, talk to me with an open mind for 10 minutes and you will go away VERY upset because basically, Ma’am, you’ve been fed BS, and from the people you trust. I opened a private investigation because I got a tip on my Tipline; I followed up; asked questions; engaged brain and then blogged about it, fearlessly and for no financial gain. Will I get anything out of it? YOU betcha . . . increased credibility that people all around the globe can see that I shoot straight and don’t fool around with liars and deceivers.
- Carolin . . . Ma’am one of the first things that a conman does is build trust. You are obviously a people person and Carolin knows this. She has framed The BBX Investigation as a personal thing . . . first it was Cameron McKean is just doing this because [whatever] . . . now she is clearly telling you that it is Dennis is just doing this because [whatever]. Your friend, the one you have put your name behind has watched her father do things that you do not know about and has tried to do the same and it’s come unstuck, bigtime. It’s not that she hasn’t got a valid complaint about life throwing her a curved-ball, it’s that she, and now you are shooting the messenger. This is very understandable but when the stakes are so high, it is foolishness. I’ve redacted your names and companies because Ma’am I don’t want you and your businesses to go down with the BBX mess when it does go down. These are a few questions that you should be asking her over a cuppa tea, or whatever you girls drink over there. Do it in private and be ready for either it all to come out or for you to go away very, very sobered up.
- Did the Thailand Agency resign or did you push them? I know the answer to that question and have the proof.
- Is there anything that Michael, you and Saviz did that wasn’t exactly kosher and could [how can I say this?] expose things somewhat? Watch her eyes and body language and you will know the answer.
- Does Dennis have the entire database including personal and financial information from a non-PCI compliant system; and did you and Dad know about it and just say, “Who cares . . . bugger off!” and hid it all? I know the answer and have the proof. Don’t believe me? Then consider that one of your PIN numbers is the square root of a number that contains a ‘legs’ number split by six. You need to contact your bank fast . . . you will know what to do.
It was the answer to that final question, more accurately when I got the proof of the answer to that question that was the reason that I determined that BBX would do everything I humanly could to help cease BBX operations.
You see . . . I care. You may have lost a lot of money for your various businesses. For you I am sorry, but you trusted the wrong people, and there is more than $37m of funny money out there that is very likely never to be repaid. Next time you sit down in the Touma Family Trust property . . . remember all those little people . . . please?
. . . you’ve leapt to a number of erroneous conclusions:-
- I’ve never had a cup of tea with Carolin [you should]
- I’ve never met Carolin [yet you will “stand with Carolin and BBX” in the face of real evidence?]
- I have no emotional connection with Carolin [Ummm “I will stand with Carolin and BBX” is not something I see from the other 149/150 responses here! OK, m-a-y-b-e I got it wrong.]
- Carolin is not a friend [Especially not with what is happening to BBX now, she won’t be your favourite person on the planet, ever!]
- Carolin is someone with whom I have done business – and I have probably had no more than 10-15 communications with over a 15 year period. [And you think that this changes my analysis above does it? You’re being conned lady whether or not you communicated with her or anyone else 1x or 100x in a million years!]
- I have not suggested/hinted at you being unethical – perhaps you’re a sensitive soul and misread things into what others say – either through insecurity or through an over inflated ego – I know not. [You could be right . . . maybe it could be both eh? No, I’m just stupid to think that when you said “people tried to destroy us out of their own malice and for their own personal gains” that this related to ethics. Dumb me!]
- I don’t need your conversation or your forgiveness [OK!]
We are now done [Granted. Toughen up and engage brain, ma’am, please, for your own sake!]
This lady will lose her BBX ‘funny money’ and go down fighting the ‘evil blogger’. [sigh] So be it.
BBX is finished. The BBX People have spoken.
In my next post I share how the insiders did it. Standby for the gory details.
Responses above have come from personal emails received from BBX Members following one introductory email notified in public days before in which I stated that I “respected any wishes for confidentiality”. I have redacted ALL personal information from ALL feedback even when responders wished to go on the record. I have and will redact any information that could lead any reasonable person to identify the informants. Please contact me via my Tipline if you wish to have any missed personal or identifying information redacted.
The BBX Investigation Series
- PUBLIC WARNING: BBX Barter (2381 words)
- 2. War Erupts Within BBX Barter (4090 words)
- 3. BBX is Busted – Working it Out (2388 words)
- 4. BBX has big, Big, BIG Problems (1778 words)
- 5. The Demise of BBX (3489 words)
- 6. BBX – A Summary (1308 words)
- 7. Reflections on Investigating BBX (6394 words)
- 8. BBX – The First Criminal Charges (3625 words)
- 9. BBX Crimes – The Significance (2,710 words)
- 10. BBX Causes Problems for IRTA (2,251 words)
- 11. BBX: Rats Off a Sinking Ship (1,715 words)
- 12. BBX Data Security Breach (1,852 words)
- 13. BBX Threatens – Sue Me PLEASE! (1,511 words)
- 14 The BBX Knives Are Coming Out (1,791 words)
- 15. BBX Memberships – Names in a Database (2,774 words)
- 16. BBX UK & The Franchise Show (2,840 words)
- 17. OPEN LETTER 1 – BBX Members (162 words)
- 18. BBX Currency Analysis – 10c/$1.00 (1,527 words)
- 19. The BBX People Speak (11,726 words)
- 20. More Words from BBX People (15,206 words)
- 21. How BBX Did It – Lies & Theft (3,663 words)
- 22. BBX – Winding Down/Winding Up (3,217 words)
- 23. BBX New Zealand Analysis (828 words)
- 24. BBX UK Membership Analysis (1,143 words)
- 25. BBX NZ – Serious Fraud Office (1,261 words)
- 26. BBX – Thailand Member Analysis (1,165 words)
- 27. BBX Minor Countries Analysis (574 words)
- 28. The BBX People (2,290 words)
- 29. BBX International in a Nutshell (295 words)
- 30. The Raw BBX Data (4,463 words)
- 31. BBX Members React – It’s War (5,617 words)
- 32. BBX and Issues of Morality (1,363 words)
- 33. Warning to BBX Staff & Associates (1,944 words)
- 34. BBX Devaluation Helps With Tax Losses (1,269 words)
- 35. BBX Rips Open the Barter Industry (1,237 words)
- 36. MEDIA RELEASE: Barter Tax Avoidance Warning (516 words)
- 37. BBX Whistleblower: Cameron McKean (4,994 words)
- 38. The BBX Investigation Final Comments (1,504 words)